After an also interesting, less healthy, more macho life, with stress, lots of alcohol, smoking and some drugs today Casey/Butterfly lives already some decades a very different, super healthy life. He lives substance free, about vegan, stretches body & mind daily, (ecstatic) dances a lot and lives as much as possible away from negative input as stress, rush, news, television etc.
He skipped coffee, black tea, carbonated drinks, fast food, chilled food or drinks, reduces sugar and whatever what might be unhealthy for mind and/or body and embraced the given name during Burning Man, Nevada: Butterfly.
Been on both sides, experienced in all of this, as well as taking and giving, Butterfly, as a spiritual, creative free soul, artist of life loves to share his competencies for free to help open minded, creative, “spiritual” people in the privileged part of the world and those in need in the rest of the world.
Butterfly is ready to share skills and projects, sometimes even networks for free, from the heart. from the heart ! All according the Burning Man principles and the Reggae foundations, Respect, Harmony, Love and All is One ! One Love !
– Interior Design, specialisation Midcentury Classics Top Design
– Concept Building, specialisation creativity & spirituality
– Marketing, specialisation creativity & spirituality
– Editing & Publishing, specialisation creativity & spirituality
– Real Estate and Online Rental
– Physical and Spiritual Creation
– Re-Balancing, by words or Intuitive Massage (Certificated Thai Massage Worker)
In the field of Interior Design
Last decades Casey’s interior design company Bebob Design was mentioned as thé institutions for Classic, Midcentury International Design in glossies, newspapers and television worldwide. He had the biggest collection on te planet….
BeBoB Design Amsterdam, with locations all over Holland and Antwerp Belgium, was thé place to be for midcentury design classics, providing whole artistic, trendy, Amsterdam as well as the whole cultural sector.
Of course, not in the last place because of Casey’s collection, what brings the right people. decision makers from many fields, but also because of his different attitude, approach, away from regular business ideas, about spreading the word about a more fair, sustainable world and starting all kind of initiatives, from recycling to start foundations and to help other foundations, institutions, private initiatives, to make the world a more social, better place.
Later on he started Icons & Props, the top end midcentury classic collection to provide the happy few worldwide, f.i. Donald Trump and Solange Beyoncé, via his website and via world’s best portals as 1st Dibs and Pamono.
In the field of Spirituality
Today, 2022, already a few decades most of the days Casey gets requests by beautiful Open Minded Souls for taking away Conditioning Elements and/or to Create Earning Models in Creative – or Spiritual B, to make a living out of it, via mental and/or physical sessions.
He loves to help out the world it’s masculine neo liberal, market influenced capitalistic system and foresee a new re-balance and better world is possible with more balance in feminine and masculine influences. That’s why he is committed, involved and connected in many organisations to bring women in their empowerment. Via art, as for example Bessel van der Kolk and Erik Scherder mentioned after research and studies. Poetry, music, songs, dance are the tools to take away give the feeling being seen, away from living with the feeling of being an incomplete human being. The last year he is also involved in the farsighted concept project “Beyond Psychology” , and feels it as a chance to help the world out of it’s trauma. Here he probably can reach more people then just the “spiritual crowd”, via requesting employers to supply their employees a program, which leads them to mentally and physical well being, more committed, better functioning people and it is also prevents burn-out and sickness, according studies.
In the Field of Organisation & Agency work
– Festivals, Parties.
– Pop Concerts
– Gala, Stage Evening, Private Party
In the Field of Theater Productions
Theater programs for small theaters; programming, research in professional and amateurish way.
In the Field of Editor & Publisher
1.Gispen Buismeubelen & Verlichting 1920 – 1940 ( in combination with Makiri Mual in Stichting Triumviraat )
2. Werkstoelen and more books with Peter Voge and more Chair Addicts.
1. Glas & Keramiek as a partner, together with Makiri Mual in Stichting Triumviraat, including mMarketing, Acquisition & Concept Building.
In the Field of Exhibitions
Many exhibitions in Gallery BeBoB Design Prinsengracht Amsterdam
The Chair Museum (a foundation Casey Godrie & Peter Voge founded)
Decorations & Styling
Contemporary Modern Art and Industrial Design is the speciality.
In the field of Real Estate and (online) Rentals
Specialist out of good feeling and flow for market. Casey didn’t get into this field out of speculation, but felt like investing in real estate, which will not devaluate over the years. The opposite happened with all the investments, which leaded to stacking. Then he decided to rent out the places, which he didn’t use for the time being, f.i. as a member of “airbnb” and “home away” from the very first hour, hardly nobody knew about this concept and this companies.
SHARING IS CARING
All initiatives, projects, networks, skills and experiences over the years, which Casey got and, on request, often is ready to share, for free. No charge, just in the moment and flow, away from money, expectations, schedules or agenda’s.
KC is living the new world concept, about sharing and helping, like we know from Burning Man Nevada U.S.A. & Afrika Burn in South Africa, Bali Spirit Festival and other Care & Love Concepts.
Casey is living a tantra-like life, getting the climax of existence out of lifting the other one ! One Love
KC is living a blissful life in freedom, in super good health & condition with a network of beautiful people, lots of love and inspiration.
With his beautiful family as a base he’s travelling the world about eight months a year is short periods, mostly not longer than 1 month, with Ibiza, Bali, Rio de Janeiro and Amsterdam area as bases. In this way he is able to connect best sides of different Cultures, Religions and Life Philosophies to feed his own Life Concept or Religion : Love.
KC embraces his natural high, substance free, lifestyle, also no coffee, black tea, softdrinks, meat etc. in appreciation already for decades, doesn’t take anything for granted and is super happy to be able TO BE.
Gratitude for being Super Healthy and Safe, Natural High, Dancing most of the days, Living in Peace, being able to Feel, See, Move, Hear, Smell and meanwhile to Love & Help or Support, the Most Beautiful Thing in Life.
Gratitude for the Super Good Health and Flexibility of the Body and Mind, living in a Beautiful Network full of Spiritual Woke People, spending most of the days with Yoga, Healing, Massage, Meditation, Coaching, Sharing, Helping and Caring in Body, Mind, Love or Bizz related Concepts.
He Loves to Share his, by Universe dropped, Talents, Mostly Really Living in the Moment in Absolute Freedom, Peace in the Mind and Love, away from agendas, schedules, appointments and away from Money Related Concepts as much as possible.
It’s all about : All is One / One Love
PROJECTS TO SHARE :
Online Journeys with art to empower people to make the world a better place.
Movement, started in 2022 to empower people, especially women, for a better balance in this masculine world, so that all, women, men and more, can use their talents and gifts for a better world. Movement by psychologist and healing songs singer Myrthe Glasbergen, and me as co-founder.
LET’SUNITE.ONLINE : (Before : Ihaveadreamtoo.com Wehaveadreamtoo.org)
A global online movement about uniting for a safe, healthy, social world.
This is an initiative KC started in 2012, grabbing some ideas and daydreaming a bit how to get to a better world, inspired by the Dalai Lama, who visited Amsterdam, by the Occupy Movement, by Avaaz, waiting for optimal flow.
The idea grow to work on a new dream, after Martin Luther King who beat racism for a big part, to beat poverty for a big part. KC would love to fight injustice in a wider range, beating poverty and injustice.
All people who hope for a safe, healthy, social world, which chances for all can join us as the number of how many hope, just hope for a nicer world, what’s probably 99% of us.
You might understand that in this way we feel we are able to create the most impressive network ever if the marketing is good, to inspire all decision makers, politicians, because we have no other agenda but helping, sharing, growing. We don’t abuse the amount of people in influence or data. We just want to help, together with you we can !
Check : www.letsunite.online
MIND THE WORLD
An online concept about fair brands and good news .
1. An initiative KC started with Tijn Touber and Robbert Zoon around 2010 about creating a new hype of branding out of fair trade brands.We inspired more organisations which are working now professional on ideas like this in many ways and feel the start and the level where we went was good enough to inspire initiatives happening now like inspiring news organisations like on radio sublime, fair brand organisations like “rank a brand” etc.
The basic idea is to share as much of info about brands by a dynamic ranking in brands, out of 100 questions and answers about taking responsibility to the environment and labour. We make this transparant in a ranking, via a schedule by choice: 100% labour, 100% environment or 50/50 labour and environment about most respectful brands.
2. Links to CNN and all other publishers of news to convince them inspiring, good news got it’s value too and is ready to read for many, so selling, as well as all the negative bad news they distribute.
Tijn Touber, author in the spiritual field, and Robbert Zoon, who already is experienced in good news marketing joined KC during some time, building this website. At the moment we’re online to inspire and are waiting for the next steps, in the flow.
Foundation, by Casey Godrie, Elly Deborah Godrie-Schuitevoerder, his wife and his father in law, Mans Dick Schuitevoerder. Casey and his company Bebob Design (10% of the profit) supply the money to create small projects, supply wheel-chairs or other needs, make roads accessible, supply bathrooms or change it, bought some land in Lovina Bali, built an education centre to teach the disabled poor youngsters in Asia skills and teach them to reflect in a more positive way : www.aidprojectsasia.nl
ICONS & PROPS
In this pages is a part of the top segment of Casey’s Midcentury, Postwar Interior Design collection, which is supplying a more international network of Collectors, Musea and Super Rich People. Next to an enormous network of Famous Dutch People via BeBoB Design B.V. this company supplied last years f.i. Donald Trump & Solange Beyonce. Check it out.
BEBOB DESIGN B.V.
A 20th Century Interior Design Gallery & Stores in Holland & Belgium.
Founded in Breda, City in the South of Holland, where Casey grew up, this was one of the first Well Known Midcentury Vintage Places, as the only one in Holland mentioned in Wallpaper, many other magazines and television programs during the years later on, when it was also based on the canal area in Amsterdam, divers other citiesin Holland and also abroad, like Antwerp, Belgium.
A creative online platform for coming artists : Concept : A platform for coming artists to introduce themselves, related on the already famous BeBoB Design network, where the customers came with millions online, because we were one of the first online interior design stores. we started it but ended up in different ideas about getting it hip for the top : www.artvirus.nl
STICHTING STOELENMUSEUM / CHAIRMUSEUM FOUNDATION
An initiative together with, passed away, Peter Võge, the writer of “Rietveld Furniture” and “Stoelen”. Those days we got supported with all the corrying crops of 20th century industrial interior design like Gerrit Oorthuys, Mart Stam specialist, Wiet Hekking, plywood specialist, Hein Stolk, designer, Dick Brouwer, from van Pelt Den Haag, etc. The initiative was collecting details from the items, knowing where to get them to make exhibitions and maybe in the future starting a physical chair museum.
A bought & sold wholesale in 20th Century Interior Design
Concept : An independent company collecting collectables for BeBoB and other galeries and distributer for brands carrying design classics in their collection, like de Wit, Gispen van de Sluis.
BEACH CLUB GANPATI ; SPIRITUAL CENTRE ON THE DUTCH BEACH
Casey participated 2 years for 50% in Beach Club Ganpati, a Good Karma Spiritual Centre on the Beach with Healings, Meditation, Yoga, divers Massages, Tai Chi, Biodanza, Ayurveda, Raw & Vegetarian Food, Smoke-Free Terrace Places, Barefoot Dance Parties, Djembe Classes, Campfire etc. Everything on a beautiful location, away from the crowd, nude bathing allowed and a permission for a Sauna Container, all near the Waterleidingduinen, the dunes, where wild deer and foxes walk free along the sea, in the wild.
This beautiful location, in between Zandvoort and Noordwijk and Bentveld, is also the place, where Amsterdam gets it’s water from and where Casey close by got a place to live where his family a year round and he, himself lived for a few months a year.
A very clean-air, quiet area in the beautiful dunes without industry, pollution, any traffic, even no bikes, no horses, no dogs allowed but lots of deer, foxes, rabbits, aurochs, etc, close to Amsterdam.
Some people ask Casey why it is not there anymore. Some told Casey got blamed for the fact it’s gone… For those : If you want to know a bit about the Ganpati story about Casey’s point of view, as always trying to be as honest as possible, you can read on. If not, let it go.
It’s not the story what it could have been… So …..Better read further at the next project : Brown Pub De Tempelier. If you want to know …. underneath the pictures….
Ganpati the story :
This story is published to avoid Casey needs to tell the story over and over when people ask him about it. When those people met the founder of Ganpati before, who told his version of the story, many of them are surprised about who Casey is, compared to the picture they made out of the story of the founder.
We quote Casey about his feeling about the Ganpati period :
“I’m happy with the period overall. Everywhere in coöperation some things don’t work, but focus on the bright side and let it go…..
Everybody got the right about her or his truth about interpretation.
You’re in a fight or discussion never responsible for actions of the other one. Who steals is a thief. The only one the other looses is some material stuff and/or money.
In general ; Every situation you can cancel or change by time or money is not a serious problem; so let it go…. let it go and focus on the beautiful parts of the situation and life in general. More than enough to shine.
Lies however should one and another try to avoid… coz this might affect opinions about others, who believe and might hurt many.
The story ….
The founder was in serious trouble, could not pay the Ganpati bills anymore, sent an email in the Ganpati network, also to Casey.
As Casey was successful in many fields he mailed he might be able to share his vision to help. In the next conversation the founder got the feeling Casey could be the man to professionalise and purify the Ganpati concept.So Casey got invited to participate by the founder of Ganpati. Casey first was hesitating. Then they had many, many conversations.
In the end he participated because he would love to help the founder and the beautiful network. He told the founder he preferred a construction with more people in stead of the, by the founder suggested, 2 person construction, him together with the founder.
The founder overwhelmed Casey with love, time, arguments and trustful words and finally the founder convinced Casey, even Casey’s wife and Casey’s finance department told him not to do it.
This after many many very clear and very serious conversations, discussions, appointments about who would do and deliver what and what not. All was clear……
One of the reasons Casey thought it might be difficult to have a partner like him was because Casey was very clear in what he didn’t want to deliver. Casey told he would not do any field work since he did his kind of jobs in his earlier life, when he started very successful places ; a very successful pub, ( de Tempelier ) funk-o-theek, a discotheque with only funky music in stead of disco, ( EXQ’S ) and an activity pub/stage/restaurant. ( de Egelantier)
Casey promised to be on the background and would only advise and inspire in that field. His partner, the founder, had one big request.
To remain the host, the gerant, the face of Ganpati, because this was his new world, his new identity.
Casey was completely happy with this idea because he didn’t want to become the face of Ganpati in stead of the founder, who was a super great host, in Casey’s opinion, as he still, after the situation, says !
For Casey it was even excellent because he was already often worshiped in different fields and ready to share and build something for this nice community.
So Casey payed 50%, 80.000 euro, most of the money for older bills and with the rest they started together to try to improve and purify the not good enough working concept.
Casey, interior designer, concept thinker, marketeer, would participate in the communication by newsletters, to supply his partner, who’s is less strong is this field but a real star in hospitality. Casey can still say there was no man in many years before he met him who gave him such a warm feeling during the period until he became a partner. Then slowly, step by step, things sadly got different.
Casey also did the content of the website, changed things via concept thinking, created a smoking free terrace, tried to work on a non-booze and vegetarian menu, arranged contracts for therapists, made it happen insurances want to insure the beach clubs, different as before, created a committed network, changed the interior, as interior designer and added vintage from his interior design gallery BeBoB Design Amsterdam. Also he selected and managed and communicated with the massage people, as well as therapists in healing, readings, meditation. Also inviting big groups for meetings and communication and planning with big institutions as Shanto’s Nataraj, Tijn Touber and Happiness etc. was his job.
The fact Casey organised and managed those things maybe caused the break between his partner and him, because most of the initiatives became more and more reflected with Casey, who was not as much in the shade as the founder thought before, because this people loved to get inspired by him. Then, the founder told Casey one day, he didn’t feel comfortable because the father of the founder and the founder were painting the club and when Casey arrived the father told his son, you and me are the worker and Casey is like your boss, the nice gentleman not cooperating in the physical jobs. Even the roles were talked over and over for long time before, and Casey warned for this sentiment, before he decided to join the founder, as Casey knew this could be difficult, as he experienced in earlier partnerships, the founder felt bad about it at this moment. Part of the deal was the founder got paid for his job a salary before Casey and the founder should divide the profit, even while Casey was working a lot too, but not in the field; restaurant, terrace, bar, painting, building etc. but website work, making appointments, communication in general, deals with massage teams, managing skills, etc.
The founder was in the beginning especially happy Casey participated because there were a lot of bills to pay, for about 60.000 euro and the founder had no cash at all. So, to create a spiritual related version of Woodstock 69, more pure, no booze, no meat, smoking free terraces, meditation and workshop places in combination with massages etc. as the challenge for both was, he needed to find about 80.000 euro, for 50% of the company.
Casey suggested over and over, every time again a few more partners but the founder begged Casey to be the only one… Casey finally agreed.
Trying to purify the concept, Casey found out one of the sore points for the founder was that the founder was struggling because eating meat, drinking booze, smoking cigars … what made him, as he said, a less pure partner as Casey. In this he became more and more frustrated, as he shared with Casey, who was living the Ganpati spiritual lifestyle, away from this all, already long time before he participated in Ganpati. Casey was also too much into efficiency, and mentioned the parts in the organization which needed to be reflected and the founder didn’t feel the boss, making the rules, anymore, but felt controlled…. Then discussions started and ….
It happened to be a beautiful, but too short dream, stopped by a, maybe unnecessary, move of Casey’s partner, who still is not able, ready to reflect the whole story, even Casey asked many times, by an unnecessary bankrupt.
Casey tried many times but the founder keeps on ignoring him, even not answering him, when he talks to him, when they coincidentally meet.
He even tells people who meet Casey to be friends with him or with Casey….
Ashame and a, like Tommy van Huystee, famous Breath-teacher, calls it, a missed chance, because the only way to heal for the founder.
And for Casey, what is left about the reasons why the founder behaves like this and even tells lies is till now only a matter of speculation…
Maybe his partner want to keep his, by his mind changed, own story alive….
Casey is ready to forgive and doesn’t claim a penny of the, in total about 120.000 euro, Casey invested and lost !! Casey doesn’t need apologises. He only wants to listen to his partners story and to tell his story, even no discussion necessary. just to listen to each other with a small chance of understanding. And hopefully the end of spreading untrue stories.Casey so far even didn’t explain anything about the situation, because the truth would be not nice for the founder and Casey prefers not to blame or judge.
The story is the story and Casey feels free ti tell what happened now to avoid to end up in questions.
The founder and Casey were ready to support a dream, which was first of all a different dream, but the dream by the founder, who changed his dream close to Casey’s dream, before Casey got on board.
This dream sadly got frustrated by the founder via a not to Casey mentioned bankrupt for very little money, what Casey easily could have changed, but for what the partner chose not to mention until the fact was there…
Why ?? Casey doesn’t know.
Casey even tried to keep the holy place for the beautiful network and discussed this beautiful network, as Kareem Raihani, Tommy van Huystee, their friend Duco and more, maybe to manage it and got even the permission from the city of Zandvoort, who rented out the location, but in the end it didn’t work because of a construction in the Ganpati contract about a debt of 80.000 euro of the Pura Vida Holding from the founder, to pay if Ganpati would love to continue……
Pura Vida, the name of the holding b.v., of the founder would have been the name for the beachclub, when it was free as an url for a website.
The fact this was not was the reason why the founder chose Ganpati, after “La Pura Vida” which he tried to claim for a website before. This is what the partner of Casey later on told him…… La Pura Vida is a complete different energy as Ganpati though…. with a different crowd. Ganpati brought the founder of course into a complete different world and connected him to a complete different network as Pura Vida would have done…. Pura Vida is Southern American, about life, dancing, party, alcohol, drugs, etc. while Ganpati is much more spiritual, completely away from the Pura Vida life.
The life Casey is living : no drugs, no alcohol, no smoking, no coffee, no black tea, no meat, no news reading, no television but sports, no negative input, no stress, no rush was very much the Ganpati concept.
The founder got the feeling it happened for a reason, talked more and more about his belly feeling and became the more spiritual man, while he maybe would have been better off in a pure vida lifestyle.
About the whole story, in what Casey, still not knowing how and why, got blamed by his ex-partner Ganpati didn’t continu. That’s why some people ask Casey and also why Casey’s Ganpati story is written here now. Casey even heard from those people who spoke with his ex-partner before Casey was cheating money wise… Casey never was involved with the money. The only money he received was the last day, the entrance, and every penny he gave to his ex-patner.
Casey even told the founder total the private investments out before the book keeping would be 50/50 because Casey didn’t want a single penny what doesn’t belong to him and still doesn’t want anything what doesn’t come to him from the heart. Casey is wealthy enough and is grateful every day about all he got, what is much more than he could dream of, in all ways. A beautiful family, Health, Love, Money, Creativity, Freedom…
A bit more peace after a conversation with his ex partner would life even make more beautiful 🙂
Casey tried many times to initiate a chat with his partner, about forgiveness reflecting and letting it go, but not spreading lies in the world but let it go. The time seems still not to be there.
Casey is open for a conversation, one to one, with some or many friends or advisers, or as the last conversations. During this meetings the founder only wanted to speak with Casey when his brother in law and the lawyer were participating, where Casey came just by himself.
The founder is in whatever setting, welcome ! Any time !
Meanwhile Casey wants to share, also to his ex-partner, he is happy and feels blessed he was able to join this Ganpati dream for too short time and could meet beautiful souls over there. So thank you Ganpati !
Casey reflected and can understand the whole situation happened maybe also out of his presence. Maybe the driven personality, his confrontation with his ex-partner about inefficiency in work, and no match in the big vision and how to live the Ganpati Concept, pure from the heart was over the top for the founder.
As he didn’t and still doesn’t known about the reason, Casey found out some actions of the founder was not allowed but decided not to sew the founder, what he could, because Casey found out the founder only owned the house of his parents, no income, no house himself, nothing … So Casey didn’t feel like sewing him and bringing the parents into trouble. Casey was asked by the brother in law to understand the situation of the founder of Ganpati, which was, according his messages, really sad and bad……
Then also Casey’s best friend Tijn Touber, spiritual writer, had some troubles those days with Ode, a spiritual magazine. Tijn and Casey both decided to let it go and not to get to court, also as a message to the spiritual world. We got all the feeling we can live a nicer better world then the current world and then it is not a good signal to end up in court …
So Tijn took his loose for about 10.000 euro and Casey about ten times more and let it go. Tijn and Casey are luckily financially in the position this amount doesn’t effect their life really. Of course they would have wished a better investment or way to spend this amount but … that’s about it.
It’s all about lessons and being able to grow, what is always part of the sentiment and a beautiful path, full of adventure, as heCasey said.
Take the lessons and keep on going, in love and trust !
Ganpati is about letting go. Casey succeeded, and he hope one day his ex-partner will be able to accept the situation, dare to reflect, take the lessons and let it go. Casey doesn’t blame him for anything, even not things his partner definitively know what was not right, and lives always the concept every individual is responsabel for his/her own choices and behaviour. Karma will solve the issues. There is always a moment to choose in future to improve and try to solve things by yourself before university takes over……
And in the end…. every problem to solve with money or time isn’t a real problem . so, let it go !!
BROWN PUB : DE TEMPELIER ; Today De Huiskamer Haven 21 Breda
This was the first long term different concept Casey started. A “brown” café” = Cozy Pub in Breda. The concept; soft lounge music and talking with your friends untill it got crowded. Once it got crowded the music changed and got turned up, the tables against the walls and chairs got upside down under and behind the tables, lamps high and it was time to party !! We got a political engagement, sold Guatamala fair trade coffee, supported small scale left wing projects and were the meeting point for demonstrations against nucleair power etc. The last song was always a socialistic song, where clients, Casey and who ever wanted jumped on the tables or the bar to sing the socialistic song, with the left fist in the air. But we didn’t fit in any box because we were also the meeting point for football games of N.A.C, the football pride of Breda. One thing all the visitors had in common; Drinking like a Tempelier. We got the highest beer supply a square meter pub in the whole city !
FUNK-O-THEEK EXQ’S ; Today Dok 19 Haven 19 Breda
A funk playing disc-o-theek in Breda. This was a place, where we created an interior together with the students of art school St. Joost in Breda, and yearly we face-lifted this place. We changed it, even as a winning horse, completely. Art students identified themselves with this project and the right dj’s made it happen that we got more and more famous because of playing the right music, ahead of mainstream. They played f.i. Prince long time before he got famous.
ACTIVITY CENTRE / RESTAURANT / STAGE DE EGELANTIER
Activity and Dining Cafe/Resstaurant, Activiteiten & Eetcafé = in Breda A concept with theme nights, mostly left wing political performances, live music, folk singers, cabaret etc
DANCE PUB ; IF, Today De Huiskamer Haven 21 Breda
A dance pub in Breda in the same space where first was “de Tempelier” Concept ; Old days and modern rockabilly music, played by a DJ in style behind an old fifties fridge. This fridge was rebuild with 2 turn tables for records and displays for music and light, high from the floor.